Herman Dune
Article written by
Ged M - Feb 1, 2007
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Herman Dnes music was championed by John Peel, for whom they recorded 11 sessions, including two live ones at Peel Acres. A French-Swiss band, who formed in 1999, theyve now recorded 8 official albums (and innumerable solo ones, usually CD-Rs) for labels like Prohibited, Shrimper and Track & Field. Originally described as anti-folk, mainly because of their musical alliances, they have more in common with bands like the Silver Jews, Mountain Goats and the Velvet Underground. Theyve now signed to Source (part of EMI) for their latest record Giant, which is distinguished by a much more expansive sound, with brass and strings plus backing vocals from the Woo-Woos (who include the Dnes little sister Lisa Li-Lund). This record also marks the first major change in the band since Neman replaced the original percussionist Om in 2001. Andr Herman Dune, who formed the band with his brother David-Ivar and wrote literally half the songs, played his last show with the band in December. At this point in the interview, the answers from the otherwise enthusiastic and articulate David become more laboured and precise, as if this subject is causing him some pain. Its the only moment of darkness as David and Neman talk about the new album with great pride and, even if Andr is no longer signed up for the Herman Dne journey, they make it clear that it will continue in some form. We interviewed David and Neman in December 2006 in a sumptuous listening suite at the EMI building in West London.
SXP: After being on indie labels for so long, youre now signed to Source/EMI. Why did you do it and what will it bring you?
Neman: *laughing* We wanted to come to such a beautiful place to have an interview!
David: The real reason why we signed to a bigger label was because we wanted certain ways of recording and people playing with us that we couldnt afford by ourselves. Weve always been the financial producers of our records but we wanted to have a horn section, backing vocals and more time to record and to mix the album in a studio. We got a call from Source, a label based in France that goes through Virgin here, and we said if we can still be the artistic producer and control everything we would love to do an album with you guys. I dont think it changes the music, the label youre on. It can if its your first album because you get crews of people telling you what to do but for us it was well understood that [we would] do whatever we wanted, through them.
Neman: We still love a lot of the other people that released our albums but weve been doing it for years and it was like: I think we reached the top of this network, weve got to try something else. Its not like we got in a fight with them or anything!
David: We put a lot of money into [last album Not On Top] because we thought the songs were really good and we wanted people to listen to them. Everyone that ended up listening to the album liked it but there was just a lack of distribution. It didnt reach people so people couldnt even get to think something about it. So that was a bit frustrating.
Neman: Outside of England it was sometimes hard to find the record. We toured a lot everywhere in Europe so people got a chance to see us but they were like: we cant find your records. Hopefully itll be easier this time. And it matters to us.
David: It matters to us because we played a lot of shows these past years and we ended up playing some places to 500 people, which is a lot for a band like us, and then you learn that there were 3 records put in the stores. Why do these people have to download something and get bad quality music instead of just being able to have our records?
SXP: I came to you through John Peel
Neman: Without John Peel we wouldnt have the chance to play in England and have people follow us. Without any record label behind us he just decided he liked us and it was: any time you guys want to come back, you can. We cant be thankful enough.
SXP: I wondered if the fact that we dont have people like him championing you or your type of music now makes it harder to broaden your audience?
David: Well, John Peel was a great man I think. He would play our records [and] he didnt even care if it has been released already or if it was on a label in England or if it was just a CD-R. It wasnt intended as a promotional thing he played it to have a good radio show, which he succeeded to do. He always asked for exclusive songs for the sessions so its not promotion for an album. Its a lot more helpful in getting your record across to have it played on mainstream radio: that would be a good tool to widen an audience. But the fact that we met John Peel and he had us on his show is great.
Neman: It was also a chance to have good quality recordings in the BBC studios. That was the idea of our new album too. We recorded it the same way as when we recorded Peel sessions, everythings recorded live, and I think we got it from him.
David: Its his fault! The last session we recorded sounded very good; it was with the producer who produced the Hefner records. We had a soundproof booth for the vocals and the guitar, and of course its the BBC so its the best microphones you can find and we were like: we should have an album that sounds this way because we have all those sessions and they sound better than our albums.
Neman: I think we even asked them if we could record it there but you cant.
SXP: The new songs on Giant sound so expansive compared to some of the old albums. When writing songs, do you hear them in that way or have you arranged them like that because you had the resources and opportunity?
David: Its neither one nor the other. We write the songs as songs. That means for us its guitar and voice in our room. They have to be songs by themselves. We didnt think about the arrangements because we had the opportunity, we looked for the opportunity because we wanted to have these arrangements. Wed been listening to music that uses horns and backing vocals for so long, its like when you see that toy in the window and you want it so bad. At some point its like: I got to have it.
SXP: A lot of the songs from Giant lend themselves to playing by an ensemble, like at your Spitz show in November. Will you always play that way now?
Neman: Were going to play a few shows with the Kooks next week and its just going to be the two of us. We dont need the horns to play the songs. Its nice to have it sometimes but we dont have to play live the songs as they are on the record. I dont think theres any point to that.
David: I love playing with the whole band. Some of them are some of my best friends, and we played one show on this tour when we were 11 on stage and it felt great. But we have to not indulge in playing the album the way it is, because everybody does it and its ruining music, [the fact] that bands record something and do the same thing over and over again for a year. A lot of people dont have the heart anymore, theyre so busy reproducing the album they dont enjoy being on stage. And I think its a duty to keep doing things in a human way, which means doing whatever you want to do. Sometimes you feel like playing with a guitar, with your friend playing bongos, and thats what youve got to do, no matter what the venue is. Otherwise youre lying. Sometimes you feel like going on tour with all your friends just to show them the countryside, know what I mean? I want Turner Cody from New York City to see Roma in Italy so if I play in Italy Im going to ask Turner to come. Hes a great bass player and were going to enjoy it but we dont HAVE to do it.
Neman: Every time we take different musicians on tour with us, and they just come the day before the first show and we dont practice. Were not good at that anyway. Were not good at playing the same song all the time. It depends on where you play: if its a small place were gonna play more acoustic, we like to change the words every time, were gonna do crazy solos.
David: I think pop music and pop songs were not meant, and are not meant, to be played by robots. Thats why people remember: I saw this guy in 65 and he was crazy on stage; you remember that because it wasnt exactly the same show as the day before.
Neman: We went to see the Rolling Stones in July. This was our first time. They played songs that theyve played for 30 or 40 years. There are still mistakes, the solo is not the same as the solo on the album, thats why I think theyre still enjoying playing them. The shows great.
David: I thought it wasnt going to be good because everyones like: its this big band sponsored by Volkswagen or whatever. Keith Richards was playing in the wrong key, Ron Wood would stop playing to cheer to the crowd and Bobby Keys on sax was genius. One of the best shows Ive ever seen was the Rolling Stones in a sports stadium!
SXP: Youre playing three nights with the Kooks [at Luke Pritchards request apparently]. Have you decided what to play to a Kooks audience?
David: Ive been warned its a tough audience so just make the songs as clear as possible. Im not going to play the game of being loud or whatever, because that would be stupid. I just wanna play whats essential about our music, which is the songs, us being together and having fun. If they dont like it, at least I would have done my job. But if they like it, theyre gonna like the real thing.
SXP: Where did you shoot the video for I Wish That I Could See You Soon?
David: Los Angeles, California. Its a friend of ours whos a director, he lives in Venice and it was shot in Hollywood in a proper cinema studio. Its still through friends on the indie network but its Hollywood!
SXP: Videos are usually about selling records but this is so entertaining and so natural. The way you interacted with the children reminded me of the rapport youve developed with your audiences at gigs.
Neman: The director, Toben Seymour, set up a playground there and let the kids do what they liked; I think that you can feel that. We werent: no, you have to do THIS, and then they start crying!
David: One of the reasons we had kids in the video, other than we like playing for kids, is because they allow you to be true. Its not easy being true playing the same songs a bunch of times for a video. But when youre facing a kid you dont wanna be dumb. Theyre gonna see if youre dumb, they just want you to be a real person because they dont care about anything else. Ive really come to think that kids - and it might sound a little cheesy - know what youre doing. They know whats happening and theyre a good way to see if your song works dancing-wise. Theyre not gonna dance if its not a dancing tune. Im not saying I use them like lab rats! I still respect kids, I trust their reactions to tell me if Im going the right way or not.
SXP: You and Andr each wrote half the album. Is he officially still a member of the band?
David: Well, Andrs my brother, I love his songs, I love his songwriting, and I love playing with him, so I definitely think Im gonna work with him again. But hes decided its his decision for his happiness in life not to promote Giant and not to tour. If he doesnt want to, if he wants to stay in Berlin and do something else, its good for him. Its a bit odd for us to be on tour with an album that hes recorded with us without him. But its been working with the audience. Its not a closed door, weve never been a band that says you have to choose, either you play now or youll never play again, but it seems like hes going in a different direction right now.
Neman: Its his own decision. We didnt expect him not to promote the album because its a great album , I know he loves it too, I wish he were here. We just let him choose if he wants to come back or not.
SXP: And will you play his songs?
David: I dont want to appropriate his songs. Like I would play a Ray Charles song, I would play a song by my brother because I know it by heart. But Im not learning his songs right now to play them on stage.
Neman: We know people will miss his songs but the fact is the album was done and then he took his decision. It was too late to change the name of it, to take his songs off the album. So were still Herman Dne, even without him, but we didnt have a choice. It happened this way, even though its different without him. We have to do it this way.
David: And its been fun. As long as its fun its good. Probably, if he had left the band before the album we would have changed the name or done something different. But we recorded the album together and for us its a full Herman Dne album and were touring, having fun every night, and no-ones been complaining so far, so its been good.
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